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You don't need them......
- You don't need them......
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You don't need them......
praise_yeshua > 07-05-2017, 03:01 PM
You don't need some "pope" or supposed "pastor" to know the truth. In fact, they often are the very problem you should avoid.
I stopped listening to them many years ago.... or rather.... I stopped thinking they somehow would help me understand Jesus better. I still listen to them from time to time.
I'm not saying we can't help one another, I am saying that you can't trust someone else to believe something for you. You can't trust someone else to be telling you the truth. I don't care how much they tell you they love you or care about you....
Eternity is too important to answer to anyone but God... Himself.
"Pastors" and "ministers" have sold this age the lie that they are somehow the "eyes" and "ears" of the Body of Christ and they're not. The eyes and ears of the body of Christ have already been formed. They were formed in the ministry of the apostles and early descendants of the Gospel message....
We have their record.... The Scriptures right in front of us. We can read their preaching. We can read their sermons. We can get the foundation they laid directly from the study of the Scriptures.
There is no authority in the modern age apart from the Scriptures. NONE. Nada. Nothing.
You don't have to accept what your "pastor" has to say about it. Go to the Scriptures and let God speak to you....
When someone tries to tell you they are your "go between" to know the Truth..... RUN. -
RE: You don't need them......
aleshanee > 06-19-2019, 11:25 PM
i always mark these threads with intent to come back to them when i have more time... .... but then most of the time i get too busy or else i am offline for days on end and forget..... .. ..but anyway i agree with you on these points completely........ ..... i attend a catholic church now..... ..(for a number of reasons...).... . but in truth i am far from being a true catholic..... ...i don;t believe a priest or anyone for that matter has power to forgive sins, hear our confessions of sins, or absolve us for sins........ ..neither can they grant what they call "indulgences"..... ... or be entirely responsible... (leaving us blameless).... when something they instruct us to do turns out to be wrong...... no... .we will bear responsibility for our own sins and misdeeds... regardless of influence either way.... and they will be responsible for theirs as well......... ......there is no go between... ... only Jesus... ... ...
which is why it is not only confusing but also insidious in my view, when another person.... (be it a preacher.. pastor.. priest... pope... fundamentalist "man-o-god".... even a calvinist .org webmaster with delusions of grandeur - turned sundayschool lesson writer... and now... even the webmaster of this forum that split off from that one... )- ...becomes angry, arrogant... or even condescending and insulting .... (questioning our intelligence).... when they issue what they believe to be the proper interpretation of a biblical principle and we disagree with them.... ..... ...... don;t they know we will all answer to God at the judgement?...... for ourselves?.... . it won;t be them answering to God and then the rest of us answering to them... ... ... most freely admit we will all be responsible for ourselves at the judgement... .... .. so why would it be any different now?.. .. in this time and place? ........it;s not.....
and along those same lines... ...i have watched people who consider themselves bible teachers, or leaders in the christian world, now for over 3 decades..... .... and i have come to the conclusion that any belief system or profession of faith that causes it;s follower ...(or teacher)... to come off as arrogant and condescending concerning his faith... and then to blame what he calls the "inferior intelligence"... or "lack of understanding" on the part of those opposing him for his having that attitude...... or to simply attack the intelligence of those who don;t agree with him at all...... is not a system of belief i can see as valid....... .. and not one that;s reflective of the Holy Spirit or of Jesus....
God can lead us to the truth when we pray and read the scriptures regardless of the version we read... .... those who claim only educated scholars, who have studied the church founding fathers and the original languages.. can understand the scriptures...... and only those who are intelligent enough to apply the rules of logic to the bible can understand the truth,... are trusting in their own intellect for salvation.... .not the Blood of Christ
lack of understanding on the part of a student requires a response of compassion and empathy on the part of a teacher.... and maybe even a change of methods..... .. but once you as a teacher tell a would be student or disciple that they are stupid... ...or just not intelligent enough to see your points... ... then you have lost it..... ...one might even say you never had it in the first place..... and like you said in the op... .. they don;t need you........ .. -
RE: You don't need them......
Kaulis > 06-25-2019, 12:42 PM
(06-25-2019, 07:49 PM)praise_yeshua Wrote:
(06-25-2019, 12:42 PM)Kaulis Wrote: I don't think it's particularly useful to think about this in the extreme terms of "needing" vs. "not needing" them. It's much more nuanced than that imo.
I always liked these sausage stuffers and believe it is very helpful to see the issue from that very perspective.
I NEED God. He IS the originator of all Truth. He is the ultimate KEEPER of ALL TRUTH.
I NEED HIM.....
I don't want to cast important people aside. I just want to put it in the proper perspective.
I don't think it's particularly useful to think about this in the extreme terms of "needing" vs. "not needing" them. It's much more nuanced than that imo. -
RE: You don't need them......
aleshanee > 06-25-2019, 07:23 PM
(06-25-2019, 12:42 PM)Kaulis Wrote: I don't think it's particularly useful to think about this in the extreme terms of "needing" vs. "not needing" them. It's much more nuanced than that imo.
how then would you suggest dealing with a pastor or other religious leader.... (non denominational church worship leader even)... who presents themselves as "the eyes and ears of the Body of Christ" .... or a "go between" in our relationship with God, as is described in the opening post?.... ..... and would it make a difference if that leader was prone to become angry... condescending or even vindictive when disagreed with?....... ..
and... by the way... welcome to the forum..... ...
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RE: You don't need them......
praise_yeshua > 06-25-2019, 07:49 PM
(06-25-2019, 12:42 PM)Kaulis Wrote: I don't think it's particularly useful to think about this in the extreme terms of "needing" vs. "not needing" them. It's much more nuanced than that imo.
I believe it is very helpful to see the issue from that very perspective.
I NEED God. He IS the originator of all Truth. He is the ultimate KEEPER of ALL TRUTH.
I NEED HIM.....
I don't want to cast important people aside. I just want to put it in the proper perspective.