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• Will the Man of God stand up?

• Will the Man of God stand up?

  praise_yeshua > 08-03-2018, 09:05 PM

  Serious, vital, question. 
  
  1. Are there any real Men of God today?
  
  2. If so, how do we establish the validity of their gift/call?
  
  
  
  
  My answers. 
  1. I have to say, that I honestly doubt the answer can be, Yes.  I believe I can prove this somewhat with the simple question, who exactly were the "Men of God" before the birth of Jesus Christ? 
  
  2. It borderlines on comical to think that a person can simply quote a few verses in the NT and then "Claim" they apply to them. I don't see any "proof". When Timothy and Titus when around to the various cities to fulfill the instructions of Paul in establishing the proper order of edification for the local churches, they had to make a choice between various peoples that were qualified. I have little doubt that Timothy and Titus made good choices. 
  
  However, Timothy and Titus aren't around anymore. Timothy and Titus set the proper order per city in the 1st century. Now there are literally hundreds of churches in many different cites all claim the same authority. 
  
  This can't the scenario that God ordained. ONLY Timothy and Titus were approved for establishing the proper order of leadership for the edification of the church. The local churches, largely as a whole, apostatized. 
  
  Now we have thousands of people all claiming to be MOGs all competing for various peoples to "lead". 
  
  I can't help but say, that is all just appears to be sad rubbish to me. 
  
  What do you think?

• RE: Will the Man of God stand up?

  DeepSix > 08-07-2018, 08:46 PM

  A Southern Baptist friend of mine from highschool became a missionary to Tanzania in the late 1970s.  It was almost 10 years before he was able to return on furlough and spend a few weeks back home.  Two things he told me on his return to the Untied States really impressed me. 
  
  One was how much the United States had changed in the years he had been gone. But the other was about the men he had won to Christ among remote tribes in Africa, and how those men had surrendered to full time service to God.  
  
  Some of the stories he told of how far those men would walk, and things they would endure to help spread the Gospel to people living in other remote tribes, refelected the closest thing to a true man of God, as described by Scripture, that I have ever seen or heard of in my life time.
  
  So yes. I do believe true men of God exist today.
  
  Growing up I knew a couple of pastors I considered true men of God.  Other people honored them as men of God.  Trouble is neither of them seemed comfortable with that honor.  Both would rather have simply been called a servant of God, or a brother in Christ.
  
  And though I know there is much more to consider in validating someone as a true man of God, first and foremost of which is absolute devotion to God.. I believe it also has to begin with what those new converts in Africa and the pastors I remember of my childhood both exhibited.
  
  Genuine humility. Which I believe is evident in anyone who is truly called to Christian service.
  
  And a willingness to do or endure whatever is required to fulfill that service, even if.. or maybe especially if.. they will receive no recognition for having done it.
  
  Men like that don't look for people lead. People naturally follow them.

• RE: Will the Man of God stand up?

  praise_yeshua > 08-07-2018, 09:25 PM

  (08-07-2018, 08:46 PM)DeepSix Wrote: A Southern Baptist friend of mine from highschool became a missionary to Tanzania in the late 1970s.  It was almost 10 years before he was able to return on furlough and spend a few weeks back home.  Two things he told me on his return to the Untied States really impressed me. 
  
  One was how much the United States had changed in the years he had been gone. But the other was about the men he had won to Christ among remote tribes in Africa, and how those men had surrendered to full time service to God.  
  
  Some of the stories he told of how far those men would walk, and things they would endure to help spread the Gospel to people living in other remote tribes, refelected the closest thing to a true man of God, as described by Scripture, that I have ever seen or heard of in my life time.
  
  So yes. I do believe true men of God exist today.
  
  Growing up I knew a couple of pastors I considered true men of God.  Other people honored them as men of God.  Trouble is neither of them seemed comfortable with that honor.  Both would rather have simply been called a servant of God, or a brother in Christ.
  
  And though I know there is much more to consider in validating someone as a true man of God, first and foremost of which is absolute devotion to God.. I believe it also has to begin with what those new converts in Africa and the pastors I remember of my childhood both exhibited.
  
  Genuine humility. Which I believe is evident in anyone who is truly called to Christian service.
  
  And a willingness to do or endure whatever is required to fulfill that service, even if.. or maybe especially if.. they will receive no recognition for having done it.
  
  Men like that don't look for people lead. People naturally follow them.

  
  I see your point and I'm glad you responded brother! You've always been helpful and I sincerely appreciate your commentary. I agree with you that God still gifts people. I believe you are gifted. God has fashioned the Body together in perfect order. 
  
  When I use the term "Man of God", I'm speaking of the ideal set forth in early church and appealed to by most any modern Christian construct/theology to establish authority. 
  
  I personally wouldn't use the term "Man of God" because I believe it is really a "misnomer" in the manner it used today. When Paul used the "term" in reference to Timothy, he wasn't appealing to Timothy's authoritative position in the Body of Christ. Yet, that is general the target of the reference among many today. I believe most of those who use the term, not you, use the term to somewhat "blend" an authoritative position with the power of an prophet such as Elijah. In other words,  it is a self serving expression used to bolster the users argument. 
  
  I don't have a problem with anyone being a mentor. In fact, I'm all for EXPANDED mentoring. Not one man to rule them all. The first century Apostles are still the leaders of the Body of Christ. We have their words. We have their teachings. There is no one above the authority of the Apostles of the first century.
  
  We have the teaching that Timothy and Titus APPOINTED leaders in every city. There were no "pastor committees". Only the choices of Timothy and Titus. Timothy and Titus are gone. We don't have anything left from them. Nothing. Logically, their power died with them. They didn't pass their authority off to anyone else. If they did, and that is a BIG.. .IF.... Then how do we know who was chosen?
  
  Today. It seems like there is an endless stream of peoples from all background competing to be the "one that rules them all".
  
  I honestly see absolutely no biblical means to establish the 1st century authority of the Apostles beyond their direct choices in Timothy and Titus.
  
  How can we possibly make a choice where there is no evidence of God's choice?
  
  Biblically and principally, there is no authority left in this modern age of Christianity apart from the Scriptures. I'm fine with recognizing the gifts God given to others. However, modern authority in the professing church often ignores the gifts of God to others.
  
  I engage "pastors" from time to time on this subject and invariably, they fail to provide an biblical evidence of their position. I bring up the fact that they are doing exactly what they criticize charismatics for doing. They simple name a verse and claim it as if its talking direct about them. To me, it is rather obvious that there is no real, biblical authority apart from the Scriptures themselves. Every person, individually should know the Scriptures themselves and stop relying on others to believe for them.
  
  I guess you can "boil down" my argument to the question of the authority of God imparted to specific individuals today.

• RE: Will the Man of God stand up?

  DeepSix > 08-09-2018, 09:58 PM

  I think I understand what you are saying, and we probably agree on this subject more than we don't.  
  
  The concept of "Man of God" as it was known under Timothy and Titus, probably does not exist anymore.  Even the Pope, considered by his own as the man of God, is elected by a commitee of Cardnials rather then being appointed by one or two other men, or even by another Pope.
  
  I do know of a few instances where a former Fundamentalist leader tried to appoint men to positions, leading churches, as though he was appointing a "Man of God".. And as if he thought he was annointed by God to do so.
  
  His efforts not only failed but failed miserably.
  
  The proliferation of Bibles printed in multiple languages combined with high literacy rates means most people, even in remote parts of the world, no longer need someone else to speak to them on Gods' behalf, or hold that kind of authority over them the men Timothy and Titus appointed had.
  
  The completed Scriptures we have today, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, make a "Man of God" with that kind of authority unnecessary.
  
  But I am still thinking through this question, and looking back on what I remember others writing and saying about it.
  
  I am not near a computer very often these days so it might be some time before I can get back to you about this, but I definitely will.
  
  Very good questions and topic for discussion.

• RE: Will the Man of God stand up?

  praise_yeshua > 08-10-2018, 01:55 PM

  (08-09-2018, 09:58 PM)DeepSix Wrote: I think I understand what you are saying, and we probably agree on this subject more than we don't.  
  
  The concept of "Man of God" as it was known under Timothy and Titus, probably does not exist anymore.  Even the Pope, considered by his own as the man of God, is elected by a commitee of Cardnials rather then being appointed by one or two other men, or even by another Pope.
  
  I do know of a few instances where a former Fundamentalist leader tried to appoint men to positions leading churches as though he was appointing a "Man of God".. And as if he thought he was annointed by God to do so.
  
  His efforts not only failed but failed miserably.
  
  The proliferation of Bibles printed in mulitple languages combined with high literacy rates means most people, even in remote parts of the world, no longer need someone else to speak to them on Gods' behalf, or hold that kind of authority over them the men Timothy and Titus appointed had.
  
  The completed Scriptures we have today, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, make a "Man of God" with that kind of authority unnecessary.
  
  But I am still thinking through this question, and looking back on what I remember others writing and saying about it.
  
  I am not near a computer very often these days so it might be some time before I can get back to you about this, but I definitely will.
  
  Very good questions and topic for discussion.

  
  Great! Thanks brother!
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