(09-20-2016, 09:18 PM)The Rogue Tomato Wrote: (09-20-2016, 02:57 PM)Vincent Massi Wrote: You realize that a Calvinist cannot have assurance of salvation. He might be a vessel of wrath, and so God has lied to him that he is saved.
Here's how anyone can have assurance of salvation, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with free will, Calvinism, or any other soteriology.
Romans 8:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God
Absolutely!
I can't remember if we've discussed this recently or not.
Just how does "The Spirit" bear witness to our spirit that we are the children of God?
I'll tell what I believe it means. I believe what I believe to be Scriptural, but certainly doesn't fit into modern Christianities definition of assurance. Many theologians seem to believe this simply means the Spirit creates in us a desire to cry "Abba Father".
While I can not deny this I believe it goes deeper than this. The Pharisee and various religious groups that Jesus faced during His advent all claimed the Father. We have much the same thing today. However, its much worse. Those in that day, didn't know what to do with this "Jesus" fellow that withstood them at every turn. A man endlessly questioning their real commit to the Father and their real sense of belonging.... to God.
This day, we have plenty of people claiming the very words of Christ as a testimony of their assurance. We we can logically conclude that many of them are mistaken. Just as the Pharisee was to our Lord. Aleshanee is absolutely correct. We CAN NOT know ourselves. Its not ours to Judge. Only God knows. Logically, at times, even the individual doesn't really know.
Then what does Romans 8:16 really mean? Its not simply claiming God's word. Its not simply trusting our faith in some "idea of God". There are many "ideas of God". Most of them idols of imagination. I faced much the same thing when I was a kid. Everyone around me telling who God was. God is this. God is that. No, that's wrong. You need to know the "god" just like I know him.
Which is what we have today in Christianity. All these different people running around painting a different image of what "God" is to them.
I would love to be able to tell everyone that your can believe God is Budda, Krishna, Allah,
Mahimata, and any flavor of "Jesus" that one might hear about. It just doesn't work that way. We just can't throw blind prayers into the air toward some figment of our imagination. In fact......
I honestly believe that a individual must come to the conclusion that they really don't know anything about God. They don't. A sinner starts at ground "zero" when they come to God.
I know I'm rambling a little bit but I'm saying this because its important to where I'm going.
Real assurance doesn't just come from claiming something. It doesn't even come from claiming God's Word. Real assurance comes from peace. Real, senseless peace. Peace when you shouldn't have peace. Comfort, when none can be found. You can't have peace and comfort when you there is none to be found in front of you without the assurance of God's real... tangible.... influence in your life.
I don't know the times I called on God before I finally realized I didn't really know Him. I thought I did. When I realized I didn't really know Him.... It changed everything for me. From that day, to this day, I've known what assurance means. Even when I doubted, God gave me peace and comfort.
Now, God treats me as a son. Not because I say he does. Not because I can turn to a few verses in the Bible and claim them. I genuinely have the comfort a Father gives His children.
Thank you Lord Jesus!!!